Waterloo
Frankly, I’ve never liked any games on Waterloo. I love to topic but as a game, they always fall flat.
Designer’s Notes
Frankly, I’ve never liked any games on Waterloo. I love to topic but as a game, they always fall flat. In many ways, they seem pointless. All the important decisions have already been made in the campaign. By the time the battle starts, in many ways it was already won / lost. There isn’t really anything left to do but throw troops at each other and see who gets more lucky. There aren’t really any strategic options left.
People have been pushing us to release a Pub Battles: Waterloo. I had many grave concerns at the outset. On top of that, look at all the other games on Waterloo already out there. What could we possibly bring to wargaming that would be new? Worthwhile? Something that hasn’t already been done?
We made a play test map and a block set. Laid out the historical positions and ran through a quick test. Wow. I was stunned. Even in it’s very rough, first draft state, it was tense and engaging. I stand corrected. Looking back, I think Pub Battles brings to Waterloo what it has always needed. This project has turned into the kind of game on Waterloo I’ve always dreamed of!
Huge Map
Most games limit the map to only the historical battle area. I always wonder, “What’s past the edge? Why can’t I go there? What if I don’t want to fight here?” I love having strategic options in a game. -Even if they are foolish. I want the ability to explore those options on my own.
In Pub Battles: Waterloo, we have an expanded map that opens up the entire field.
Most games only cover Red area.
This allows the French the opportunity to explore many strategies of maneuver, greatly enhancing the replay-ability.
Full Order of Battle
We are including a full OB of the forces used in the entire Waterloo campaign. This allows you to explore many What Ifs:
- What if Grouchy marched to the sound of the guns and arrived at Waterloo?
- What if Napoleon waited until the 19th to start a battle?
- What if Napoleon hung on for a 2nd day of battle with Grouchy’s forces to reinforce?
- What if Wellington called in his reinforcements from Hal to fight a 2nd day?
Campaign Expandable
We have already planned and sketched out the adjoining map areas for battles at Wavre, Quatre Bras and Ligny. We will release expansion maps and scenarios for these battle later.
You can fight each battle as a single game or combine them all together into an extended campaign!
Plan for all 4 maps
Notice how we have aligned the boarders so that you can split the maps and play on another table. This will be perfect for 2 player teams. You can fight simultaneously but the players at Waterloo won’t know what is happening at Wavre during the battle! The same for Quatre Bras and Ligny.
The expansions will cost much less as they don’t need pieces or dice. They only need maps and Scenarios.
Pub Battles Movement
We noticed right away that the random Pub Battles movement sequence really mixes up the Reinforcements. The Prussians don’t start marching until they ‘hear the guns’. So if the Prussians move before the French, their entry is delayed a turn.
On top of that, the road column sprawls result in traffic jams! Let’s say IV Corps is marching in but I Corps is lined up on the road behind them. That’s great but what if I Corps gets pulled to move 1st? They can’t! The road is clogged. IV Corps might move later but I Corps is a turns march behind now! You get realistic snaking, traffic, bottlenecks with this system. You can use your HQs to try to sort traffic snarls like this out but what if you fail?
The Prussians can come in quickly and smoothly or be terribly delayed from game to game. With uncertain entry and all of the opened up strategic options, this will be a game you play over and over again.
The problem is we have limited ourselves to the British version of the battle. There was much more going on
than Wellington would have us believe. The French light infantry inflicted heavy casualties on the British. Several British squares were broken. The Prussians played a major part in the battle. The Dutch Belgians were actually very good and I believe had a lower desertion rate than the elite Highlanders.
Updated information can lead to updated and more interesting game play.
Nope, no British squares were broken, and the the Prussians didn’t play a major part in the battle – they played THE decicive part!
This is interesting. I know access to Russian war records now are changing the history on what actually happened on the Eastern Front. I’ve head some gamers saying that many Civil War numbers were exaggerated. They say the South wasn’t as badly outnumbered as history tries to make it sound. This was done to glorify Lee and bolster southern pride and morale for reconstruction.
The British don’t like to talk about the squares broken at Quatre Bras a fee days earlier, The French cavalry expected to break the British squares.
Waterloo is a nice topic, but i really think a detailed treatment of Plancenoit would be equally interesting and different from what is out there.
Hello Gentlemen, I apologize that I’ve been so detatched from the Pubs Battles discussion groups for so long but the nature and circumstances of my current and last job while trying to move have kept me occupied far longer than expected. As a proud supporter/owner of every Pub Battle produced from the very beginning, I am excited about Waterloo being produced.
With that said, I have a concern/question: Given the intense and compact fighting in and around Hougoumont and La Haye Sainte, how can a repeat of these potential fights be accurately modelled when using linear blocks that will not ‘comform’ to the compact/condensed formation arrangements at those defensive locations?
Thoughts on a possible solution: Include separate off game board cards that have ‘unit holding or location’ boxes that a player places that unit or units in if they are in defense in and around that location and use a square wooden block with a sticker labeled such as, “Hougoumont Defense” or “La Haye Sainte Defense” to place over the location to show it is being defended. Obviously, each particular defensive position would have its own representative block, unit holding box area and a defense (and possibly attack) modification rating. I hope this idea helps. VInce
Vincent, the detailed map of Hougoumont would be a waste for the most part since most competent French players will by pass it. It is a British dream to have the French try and break their line at the most defensible point.
Why did you not email your customers that it was being released???
Sorry Daniel. We don’t do an email list. We don’t want to spam everybody. 🙁
Hi, I am interested in the game, but wish to check the components included in the package (e.g. if the measuring sticks and the dices are included). Do you mind to set out the components in each package, and possibly if we need to buy the other components as well (and what are these additional purchases)? Thanks a lot!
The game comes with everything you need to play. The game here on our website includes regular dice, (not Pub Battles Dice) and measuring chains. The measuring sticks are optional. Some people like them better. Some prefer the chains that come with the game.
I’ve played the Waterloo Campaign via Columbia’s Napoleon block game. From the beginning I realized the game hadn’t reached full potential because of just what you point out: the map was not big enough, thus limiting the number of options, especially road routes, the French player had. I made my own map on large white poster board with deep green marker for roads, extending geographically all the way to Ostend, Lille, Ghent, and Antwerp. This solved the limited options conundrum and made the game much better. It was, of course, a point-to-point movement game.
Nice. To be clear, this Pub Battle game is Battle scale. So it doesn’t cover the entire campaign area. The expansion maps will expand to cover the historical area of the campaign. Still, it won’t cover all the campaign area of the map in Columbia’s Napoleon. So for a Battle game, this map is really big and covers lots of extra territory.
All that said, we are working on a campaign system now. This will be more the scale of Columbia’s Napoleon. I haven’t laid out the total area of Waterloo yet but I expect it to cover more ground than that game.
Columbia Games did a great job with that. I recommend it. Great game. Ours will be very different. We will have a very different take on it. I’m really looking forward to seeing that series come out.
Are you going with cardboard tubes like the Brandywine edition, plastic as with Marengo, or something else?
I like the cardboard over the plastic for sure.
Well, this is mostly a function of map size. The bigger maps work better with the plastic. You can remove both ends if need be and it is wider. In the cardboard, the pieces can get wedged and jammed in there where you can’t reach. :/
Hi Guys..
When are you expecting the ‘other’ maps for Waterloo to be ready for sale..?
No promises yet but we are looking to get them out next year.
Have played PB Waterloo many times now. One thing that stands out fairly early on is that there is almost no reason to waste troops on Hougomont. Napoleon never intended it to turn into the major drain that it was. He just wanted to tie some British troops down defending it. Of course, the reverse happened. It is fun playing the battle and not making that mistake.
I have played a game where the French player had hot dice and cleared the Chateaux by the early afternoon with no losses, essentially a ‘best of all possible worlds’ scenario. It was nice, but it didn’t turn into an allied rout.
Update to my original review: Regarding Picton’s role, Peter Hofsschroer’s “1815 The Waterloo Campaign: The German Victory” does identify Picton as commanding the Allied left. I think this is one of the best of the modern histories of the battle, so kudos to Pub Battles for including Picton in this role.
I also note that the Hougemont is possible to carry for the French, if they mass both Jerome’s two-block division from the south (one block attacking, one block in support) and Bachelu attacking Cooke from the East. Remember that Jerome and Bachelu will BOTH get to roll in the first round. Chances are very good that Cooke will actually be destroyed in the initial round, if the II Corps artillery has managed to inflict a “spent” result during movement.
After losing Cooke once, the Allied player will routinely commit another infantry unit to support Cooke during the opening turn. This allows the Allies to retreat Cooke after the first round (if he survives) while not surrendering the Chateau entirely. Even in the face of additional forces, it still pays the French to force the issue in Hougemont on the first turn, as loss of the Chateau severely compromises the Allied position West of the Brussells road.
Well……I am excited! I love the entire concept of the game design and am opening my wallet! I am especially excited about completing the Ligny-Waterloo campaign! Civil War and Napoleanic games sounds like a wonderful way to spend my retirement!
We are now play testing the combined campaign with the expansion maps for Waterloo. It is going very well. It is very interesting to keep the strategic situation in mind while fighting out the particulars.
It is also very fun to fight out the rear guard actions while the Allies are trying to pull out, fall back and reform somewhere. Napoleonic cavalry is deadly! Bad chit pulls can cause all kinds of havoc with traffic snarls and delays along roads. Very tricky…. and great fun!!
I would hope that Ney is included in the Campaign. Hw was the left wing commander for the French and will be critical for the Quatre Bras battle.
We started with a Ney HQ, but after playing, with this system, there didn’t seem to be much point. There is nothing for him to do. We’ll send you a complimentary Ney HQ. Experiment with this and see if you can come up with something worthwhile that makes sense in this system.
Its very encouraging to hear you’re play testing the combined campaign with the expansion maps. I’ve only been holding back on buying Waterloo until all four maps/scenarios are available, as I’m most interested in a larger maneuver area and the quasi-campaign or multi-battle capability this creates, which will be unique as a Pub Battles experience.
Btw, will there be a “campaign” set of rules or guide that comes with these new maps, or separately, to provide a unifying theme for using all four maps at once? I hope so!
Yes, each map will come with a separate scenario booklet with the setup for that battle. We’re going to need some kind of campaign scenario booklet also. We’ve already sketched out the ‘rules’ for this. It should be pretty short.
It is really fascinating to see the strategic / operational situation unfolding while you are fighting out the battles at the same time. It really increases the depth and meaning of what you are fighting for and what the loss of these units or terrain. Very cool.
Quick question — On the OB sheet, some blocks have names such as “I Kielmansegg 3”, but the sticker just shows “I Kielmansegg”. What is the 3 denoting? I can’t seem to find it in the rules…
Those are the division numbers for historical interest. We started with those on the stickers but deleted them later. They looked too busy and caused confusion.
How is testing coming a long with the expansion maps? I’m very, very interested. Are the maps available to order? I’d love to get a hold of them!
Working on rules update this week. Once those come out, the expansion maps will just need graphics. Should be soon!
Do you know when the other 3 maps in the campaign will be finished, also is Covid – 19 affecting it.
How are the other 3 maps coming? Are these still in the works?
I am waiting to order until the full campaign is available. Is there an update?
That is going to be awhile. We should get a new quote from graphic artists on Monday. If that is reasonable, we’ll push forward and it won’t be long.
Thank you for the quick reply!
The answer was a bit confusing to me. The first sentence says “it’s going to be a while” then it closes with “it won’t be long” Can you provide an estimate of the number of months? I am eagerly awaiting the full campaign but I may have to pull the trigger early to get the base game.
Our goal is May but no promises. Sometimes things go faster or slower. We don’t like to rush it out the door if it’s not ready.
This sounds promising 🙂
Is it possible to get a PDF version of the 3.0 rules? I found a set online but it appears to be the 3.0 experimental version and was confusing when watching the “How to” videos on YouTube. 🙂
Yes! Just send us an email and we’ll send you a pdf.
I bought the full Waterloo set with the canvas map and I couldn’t be more pleased. It’s a beautiful package and the 3.0 rules a great step forward. I can’t wait for the other maps to become available.
So, are those other three Waterloo maps ever going to materialize? I drop in every few months only to see your blog chockful of all the new products in development, yet nothing about the remaining three maps. We spent money with the expectation you would deliver them. Well, will you?
Yes we will! We’ve gone through 3 different graphics experts now that can’t do them…. :/ That said, Wavre is about half done. We’ll try to get this out next year for sure.
Yes we will. We’ve gone through about 3 different graphics experts now that can’t do them. :/ Wavre is about half done now. We’re going to commit to getting that out next after Bull Run.
Can those maps help? https://www.kbr.be/en/the-ferraris-map/ . Look for map 78/79/95 and 96
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferraris_map
“Importance
Napoleon Bonaparte consulted the maps and subsequently used his topographical knowledge in his military campaigns.”
Thanks for the link
Good afternoon, any updates on the 3 expansion maps for the Waterloo campaign? Thanks
Working on Wavre now. That is the next release!
Great news! Can’t wait for the release 🙂
Thinking of purchasing Waterloo for solitaire gaming. Has anyone else tried it solo? Would like some feel for it before splashing out so any comments will. E useful. Thanks in advance.
Geoff, I’m glad you asked this question! I find Pub Battles exceptionally suited for solitaire play. I have a blog post about this:
https://boomsimplepubbattles.wordpress.com/2022/04/25/solo-pub-battles/
And here is a 6 minute video of me playing Waterloo solo:
https://youtu.be/4N-hz9WWvDs
Let me know if you have any more questions!
Hello,
Your Kriegspiel Waterloo map is 24″ x 34″ and 1:8000 scale.
I am having a hard time figuring out the difference between that map and the Pub Battles Waterloo map.
Could you please provide the dimensions of the Waterloo Pub Battles map and the scale? Any other explanation of the differences would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Ed M
Great question!
The KS scale map is zoomed in x2, compared to Pub Battles. It gives you a lot more detail and accuracy while placing troops. The downside is that you lose all the greater, surrounding area for maneuvering.
Napoleon is coming Brussels .
Ah!! You’re the guy we were trying to reach years ago!
You know, I thought the exact same thing about Antietam and Waterloo. That they would be boring. There is nothing really to do but launch frontal assaults. I was surprised. Both games ended up fascinating.
We want to do Leipzig but I think it is too big for this scale.
What battle would work best? Have you worked up any others already?
Battle of Eylau 1807 , just started working on the map.
Looking forward to it.
I have been trying to figure out a way to make the maps 3D as I have a hard time seeing the slopes in 1D.
Tried gluing the map on white foam insulation and then pressing with my thumb in the recessed areas, but the foam rebounds. If I press too hard it tears the map.
Any ideas?
I have done Eylau on TTS. Found a great map.
Where is it?
I have not uploaded it but there is a Kriegsspiel module there. I did not do the Kriegsspiel module.
Got the map from DavidRumsey.com
Oh cool. He has a lot of cool stuff on there!
Will there be reprints of the Napoleonic games that have sold out?
Yes! We are re-working all the old battles to fit the new system with blocks & brigades, etc.
Hopefully, most will be ready this fall!
Wooo! How can I get on your mailing list?
We don’t have do one. 🙁
We don’t want to spam everybody but we have been getting people asking about it. Maybe we should do one. ??
Is there a new set of rules for brigade level? If so, where can they be found?
Not yet. We are working on one now. Should be ready this fall!
I’d love to also get the original divisional blocks. Is that possible?
We’ll be coming out with new, updated divisional blocks and brigades.