Pub Battles
What is Pub Battles?
Pub Battles is a game system to play musket era battles. Rather than the tedious, minutiae of small unit tactics, it’s large scale (Corps & Divisions) focuses on the bigger strategic concerns of fighting an entire battle. It’s emphasis on realistic Logistics, Fog of War and Command & Control limitations, makes it a favorite of the military for officer training today!
Why is it called Pub Battles?
It’s quick setup & play time (1-2 hours), and small foot print makes this a game you can play out at your favorite restaurant or pub.
The wooden blocks and real canvas maps are water resistant and durable to enough to survive playing out!
How Does it Work?
Logistics
Each unit must trace supply off the map along their side’s LoC. If they can’t, they count as destroyed for victory at the end of the game.
Each side has Baggage Trains. When your units fight, they become spent. To rally them back to a strong, fresh state, they must be in range of an unpacked Baggage Train. The problem is: once a Baggage Train unpacks, it can’t move. They are locked into place for the rest of the battle.
In essence, your unpacked Baggage Trains become your VP locations on the map. If your train gets sacked or you have to move it, you lose!
So instead of the game designer telling you that you have to hold this hill because it was important to the historical generals at the time, YOU set your own VP locations on the map, by unpacking your Baggage Trains.
This gives the battles a very strategic feel. As the battle unfolds, you have to decide when and where you want to fight. Where do you want to form a line? Where do you think you can hold? Do you even want to fight a major battle here? Depending on how things progress, it may be best to just fight a delaying action for a while and then withdraw from the field. When and where do you commit to a fighting a full scale battle? These are all critical strategic decisions players must wrestle with.
Fog of War
You don’t get God like control to move all your pieces at once in perfect concert every turn. Both armies move 1 Corps at a time by random chit pull. So you don’t know if who will move first: the enemy or you? Moving by Corps models the random and chaotic nature of maneuver on a real field of battle. How do you plan for an attack if you’re not sure who will go first? Will the enemy even be there when you do move? Will they launch a preemptive strike or will they run away?
The pieces are on hidden blocks. The unit quality reflects the number of hits they can take in a fight: 1-Detachment, 2-Militia, 3-Veteran, 4-Elite. In addition, HQs can hide units off map on their Reserve card. Is the enemy really weak? How many do they have left in Reserve? You can’t know for sure. How is the enemy moving? Do that act weak? Is it just a ruse?
In many battles (depending on the scenario) the order of battle is uncertain. Where will the enemy come from? How many forces do they actually have? When will they arrive? This forces you to fight with uncertainty: like real generals have to.
Command & Control
Your inability to move your entire army at once in concert is modeled by the Chit Pull. In addition, you need to be in range of an HQ to attack. Your HQs can’t be everywhere. What part of your line is most critical to keep in command?
There is another critical way you can exert Command & Control: Altering the timing. Some generals were a master at this. Did the enemy get picked to move now? Do you want to jump ahead of him and move first? Roll your HQ rating or less and you can! Maybe you got picked to move first but you don’t want to. You want the enemy to move first. Ok, so make an Alter roll to Delay your move. Maybe you can pull it off.
In the real world, you can’t calculate the perfect odds for the perfect attack beforehand. That’s not what generals spend their time doing. There are many things out of their control. You can’t micro manage every brigade and regiment in the battle. You gave the orders but who knows when they will actually move? You can try to speed them up or slow them down.
Yes, it can be frustrating. Welcome to the pressures of real command. This is some of what makes Pub Battles so realistic and accurate. A fantastic model of combat in the musket age.
Part of why the military loves to use it for training!
Can you play it Solitaire?
YES! The military often uses it for team play with 3+ players on each side. Surprisingly, it also works very well solitaire.
Moving only 1 Corps at a time makes it easy for you to focus on just what that commander knows. You don’t know who will be moving next. This system generates a fantastic game narrative for how the battle is unfolding as you play.
The random movement also means you can’t be sure when the reinforcements arrive. Every game plays very different giving it tremendous replay value.
This is a game that gets played!
What is the best way to get started?
We usually recommend starting with a battle you are most interested in. The smaller battles (map size) take up less space and play faster.
Why would I want the version with No Blocks?
Because…
- They are cheaper! You can get a standard set of blocks and use them for all the battles.
- Some players also like using their own minis or even Kriegsspiel pieces instead of the standard blocks. This allows you to customize your game and play it the way you want to.
Do I need the Canvas?
No. The paper maps have the same amazing graphics! The Canvas is a nice upgrade for your favorite battles. The main advantage is that they are water resistant and very durable. They will last a long time, even under rough treatment. Preferable if you are playing out at Pubs!
Learn More
Does Command Post Games sell medium sized blocks-between large infantry blocks and HQs cubes?
Hey Larry!
Like the size of blocks shown on the Bulge play test?
We have a small batch of them for testing. We are trying to decide if we should use those or not. They are about half the size of a long block.
If we use them for our Ancient’s system and WW2, we should have lots of them once we go into production.
How many do you want? What color?
Marshall
Thanks for the quick response Marshall!
Looking for about 10 dark blue and 8 grey. I want to experiment with subunits of artillery (roughly battalions sized-tho they were ad hoc in the ACW).
Getting my head around Gettysburg now-very nice
Thank you!
I’ve got red, white, grey and black right now.
I could send you all grey. You could paint some of them blue. ??
Did you see how the PB blocks compare to the KS blocks:
https://www.commandpostgames.com/kriegsspiel-battle-scale/
Are these 1″ blocks, Marshall? That is a perfect size for an intermediate stage between division (big blocks) and battalion (KS blocks). It accommodates a third line of pub battles, between the original and kriegsspiel versions, focused at the brigade level. This new series would be able to use the version 2.92 rules almost unchanged.
This scale (it would be around 1:11,000 or so) enables pub battles versions of larger battles, especially napoleonic (Waterloo is an excellent candidate) and American Civil War. Trying to scale Civil War battles up to regimental (KS) blocks from the original Antietam or Gettysburg games immediately runs afoul of an unmanageable number of blocks and the tremendous disparities in regimental size, combined with unreasonable large maps.
However, at Brigade level, both sides in the civil war organized roughly comparable brigade-size units by assigning numbers of variably sized regiments to brigade organizations. This scale is still eminently playable for large battles (Gettysburg, Waterloo, Austerlitz), but captures the orders of battle more accurately, and makes more playable the beautiful but crowded 1:18,000 scale maps in the original games.
Hi. My historical game club has been very interested in the Gettysburg game, and speak often of it. We watched the review on Little Wars Tv, we would love to add this to our collection, but the price seems very high in comparison to like games. Can you explain the points that make your game different and worth the price? I would like to share your response to my club.
Thank you for your time.
Thank you for your interest!!
Great question. As for price, let’s check comps for wargames on Gettysburg made with wooden blocks. The Gettysburg game from Columbia is currently $79.99. Simmon’s Guns of Gettysburg is currently $147.78 on Amazon. Make sure you are comparing apples to apples here. This isn’t a small paper, magazine game.
Our standard game is $83.25. I don’t see a big price difference. We do offer a premium edition that comes with a real canvas map, like the kind actually used in that era, for only $142.92. This is only an option. You don’t have to get the canvas map.
Why is Pub Battles worth it?
1. Our games actually get played. We hear over and over from guys in email about how Pub Battles is the game they have played the most over the last year. It is quick, easy to play, easy to remember, fun to play and historically accurate. Not just a game to collect.
2. If you are a collector, our games are a great investment. We hear from players all the time that can’t find our games used. I know, that’s because nobody sells them! They keep them and play them. Tremendous resale value opportunity.
3. Pub Battles has amazing replay value. It includes a large, expanded map area that includes the East Cavalry Field. You are free to explore various flanking strategies that most games do not allow.
4. Our game also includes bonus pieces and scenarios for you to explore historical ‘what-ifs?’ What if Stuart was not delayed and was on the field at the opening of the battle? What if ‘Stonewall’ Jackson had not died and was able to resume command shortly before the battle? Being able to game the possibilities gives you a completely different understanding of the standard battle we grew up with and know so well.
5. If you want to give Pub Battles a try, we’ll make it easier for you. Send us an email. (don’t worry, we don’t spam) We will give you a 15% off coupon code to use for your first Pub Battles game.
Given the topsy turvy state of everything at the moment, have you given any consideration to providing rules/maps etc in off from for sale
What do you suggest? What would you like to see?
Very interested in your Gettysburg game.
I watched both videos by Gilbert Collins and read the posted comments that brought up some questions.
Do you have a site that contains Q & A?
Also this would be my first PUB Game. Is the 15% coupon still available?
Thank you.
William Clark DeLashmutt-Virginia
Looks like we have a few pages on this related to specifically to Brandywine, Marengo and Little Bighorn. These are older, before the 3.0 update.
Sure! Help us get the word out by sharing and we’ll send you the code!
https://www.commandpostgames.com/save-15/
For waterloo, are the blocks battalions or brigades or divisions?
Thanks!
Divisions. We are about to release a Kriegsspiel block set for Waterloo. That would take the units down to ‘450 man half battalions’.
I’m interested in the Gettysburg game, and would probably purchase the canvas version. Which size of blocks would be the best for a map of this scale Large, or small ?
The Canvas version comes with blocks. You don’t need to order any separately!
Very useful piece of information ! 😉
In Ancients, if a unit is elite, does it ignore the first hit every dice roll, or the first hit once per combat?
Once per combat. So if it took 1 hit in round 1, that would be absorbed. A hit in round 2 then would flip the Elite.
I like the look of The Little Big Horn.But no Benteen?
Oh yeah, he’s in there! And the pack train. And the Gatlin Guns. You can bring them all there from the start if you want!
Referring back to Will’s post of Mar 24 – “Given the topsy turvy …” – I would like to see a “book” with the basic set of rules that includes variations for different period (ancients, ACW, Napoleonic). Making a way (for a price) to get PDF’s of each game ruleset as a collection?
I am retired and play solo. I don’t play historical per se, rather “period”. I don’t try to reproduce battles. They already occurred. Solo battles are totally new each time. I stumbled uponPubBattles rummaging through the internet and watched a video. I was fascinated. Somehow/somewhere someone posted a set of PubBattles rules called 3.0 and dubbed it experimental. This was awhile back. I didn’t know if I would like the game, so I printed off those rules, made up some blocks out of squared dowel, drew a couple of rough maps, and I was off. I haven’t stopped since. I LOVE this game! The BEST game of its kind anywhere. It plays solo so well. I do occasionally tweak a rule here or there for solo play. Through the Pub Battle fans Facebook group run by Michael Strand I’ve seen excellent replays of games and discussion of rules variations I was not aware of. I can’t afford to buy each complete game, but would like to see more ala carte offerings. I think you might find more folks trying Pub Battles out.
Thank you
Dale
Do you guys ever have sales ?
Good question. In general, no.
Most companies play games with this. They make their MSRP like $150 but it’s always ‘on sale’ for $99. You never actually pay full price anywhere. Always feels like a scam to me. ?? Maybe it’s just me.
So our approach has been the opposite. We just set our best, lowest price and leave it alone. No monkey business. We also don’t jack up our prices for the Christmas season. I see other places do that a lot.
We do have ongoing promotions if you’re looking to save some money.
-If you order several games at once, you get free shipping on the additional items.
-If you help us get the word out by sharing our pages around, you get a discount:
https://www.commandpostgames.com/save-15/
Hi, Marshall!
I would like to place an order for a bunch of your 1 inch blocks — the same size as you use for Ancients. I want to experiment with new Ancient unit types. I plan to buy a set of Ancients at the same time. I don’t care what color they are. In fact, you can even sell them to me unfinished so I can color them as I like.
What’s available, if anything?
What kind of battles are you working on?
If you work up some scenarios, we’ll send them to you for FREE.
We’d like to see some more Roman battles from other periods. Also Alexander! Sparta? Samurai?
How many do want? About 100?
I love the Pub Battles system, but for me there is one thing missing; any risk to commanders. There are numerous instances of senior officers becoming casualties in this period, but it’s not really reflected in the game. Desaix at Marengo, Uxbridge at Waterloo, Wolfe and Montcalm at Quebec, and Reynolds at Gettysburg all spring to mind. While the effect of losing a senior officer may not be disastrous, it still had an effect on the troops, and at the very least would cause delays in transmitting orders. However, on occasion the loss of a senior officer could mean the loss of the battle, eg St Ruth at Aughrim.
Allowing senior officers as represented by the command blocks to become casualties would be both realistic and add an extra dimension to the uncertainties of battle. Where you position your officers to command attacks matters.
We’ve talked about this. I like the idea. We just aren’t sure how to implement it. What do they do? Seems like if they can get killed or wounded then they should give an extra power also, but what? A +1 combat drm always seemed kind of empty.
We’ve tested ideas for having a leader stack with a unit. While stacked, that unit gets a bonus but then the leader could get killed or wounded. What happens then? Maybe the HQ can’t alter any more for the rest of the battle? Maybe it can’t command any attacks for 1 turn while a new officer takes over?
We are also testing ideas for HQ reactions during combat. So like maybe the HQ can retreat, rally and send new units into combat, between rounds. So that would give you a reason to have a leader there. If he was killed, then you would lose those abilities.
So far, in all the testing we’ve done, we haven’t seen anything that works good or feels right. That fits the system. Everything we’ve tried so far just adds complexity, isn’t fun and doesn’t add much to the game either. We are still working on it though. There may be a way we just haven’t found.
We see overlap in the BTs and the HQs also. Should these be combined into the same unit? That might take some of this into account. ??
I haven’t played the Reisswitz Kriegspiel so I don’t know, but I wonder if there is any any allowance for the risk to senior officers in that original game? If there’s something in there, it might fit with the Pub Battles system.
lol… Well, yeah. The Umpire. That’s about all they say about most stuff.
If attacked by Cav, I’ve seen umpires just roll to dice and make up an outcome. Like a DM would in D&D.
I saw on Facebook that there will be new rules for Pub (Musket) Battles. How does one go about getting the new rules? Do we have to buy a new set to get them?
Thank you,
Greg
They come with the games and block sets. If you already have one of our games, just send us an email and will send you a pdf copy. =)
I’m interested in several editions, but can’t decide. I have an interest in the civil war while my son is into napoleonics. Can’t decide which to get.
The biggest question I have though is how do I order? Everything looks out of stock?
Yes, almost everything is out of stock because we are in the middle of switching over our stock to a new size and updated rules system. Should be available soon!
My favorite is Marengo. It should be ready in a week or so. Antietam is ready now. Gettysburg should be up by this weekend!
Hey Kevin! We have an issue with your order. We tried to contact you via email. Might have gone to spam folder. Email us soon!
Thanks.